Joining Ukraine's Armed Forces was an emotional decision, but if I hadn't made it, I wouldn't have forgiven myself - volunteer Lesia Lytvynova

First of all, Mrs. Lesia, you are now defending our state, defending us all. Thank you very much for that. And I would like to ask you: what does independence mean to you?

Once upon a time, I worked on television.  Many years ago, I was a director, a good director, and we were filming a documentary project about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army fighters. One of the heroes with whom we wrote a long interview told me: you do not understand what independence is, you did not choose it, it was brought to you in the beak - and you will lose it. Then I did not understand what he was talking about. But since the beginning of the Maidan, then since the beginning of the war, because the war didn't start now, it started eight years ago, almost every day I remembered him and what he said. Independence cannot be given as a gift, it must be earned. And now this is the price we all pay for what we have.

How did the morning of February 24 this year start for you?

In fact, my morning started at night, because already in the evening, one of my old acquaintances from that country, which we will no longer name aloud, wrote to me the exact time when the rockets would hit. We watched a movie with my husband. I said: "Listen, here the Russian wrote that we will have a full-scale war". He folded up his laptop, got into bed and said: "That's all, I'm going to sleep, because the war is on, and I'm tired". And he really fell asleep. Until then, I sat watching the news, waiting to see if it would happen or not. I didn't believe until the end that it would be like this.  When I actually heard the first explosions, "War", "Explosions", "Hits", and other things appeared on social networks, so I called my older children. They live separately, so I told them to pack up and go to my place.  At the time, it seemed to me that this was the smartest thing I could do in this life. Because a few years ago I sold an apartment in Kyiv, we bought a house outside the city, a big house with a huge plot, so that everyone would be comfortable and cozy. It's not even a village, it's a tiny dacha cooperative. I was sure that no one would be there, no one needed it, he was not on the main roads, so it would be quiet there. It was a huge mistake, but I found out about it later. One of my daughters came, and the other, with her husband and children, decided to go in another direction. My husband and I waited until everyone gathered and went to the Foundation, because we understood that we would now be transporting medics non-stop. The children stayed at home. The youngest child was one and a half years old then, she was still breastfed, and I fed her. I said that we would return in the evening and that everything would be fine. And we went.  We could not return in the evening, because the last ones who reached us were already in the office at night and it was impossible to stop this. And the next day we couldn't get there - because my wonderful house was near Dymer, and the two nearest more or less large settlements are Dymer on one side and Hostomel on the other.

"The children remained under occupation. When we realized this on the 25th, we gave the keys to the office to the executive director, took our passports, and went to the military commissariat... That's how I ended up where I am now".

Mrs. Lesia, you said that the children remained under occupation. When were you able to pick them up? Or maybe someone else was able to do this? And what happened to your house? You said it “was” there…

No, it's still there, it's intact. It was hit a little bit somewhere, but nothing vital was affected. I was not able to pick up the children, the children left on their own. They spent almost three weeks there. There was an agreement between the locals and the Russians who were standing there that they would allow at least part of the people to get out. These were women and children. The bridge was broken, so they were going by water. There was almost no communication. When a connection appeared, I told them: "Everything will be fine, no one will touch you, don't be afraid of anything, our house is strong". It is really strong... And they comforted me, saying that everything was fine, that they were playing, and had candles. There was  nothing - no electricity, no gas, no food, because I never stocked up. Somewhere the dogs found a roe deer that blew up on something. They shared - they were not alone in this cooperative, there were other people there. And then a connection appeared, and they told me: "We need to make a decision quickly, if we have to go, then right now". You know how scary it is, because you can't do anything. I said: "Go!". They said: " We turn off the phones, because the Russians will take them anyway". The connection disappeared, and in half an hour, when I knew for sure that they were right there, all the news feeds showed that the Russian forces opened fire on people walking across the bridge. Several people died there. I can't tell you how you feel when you can't do anything.

It is really difficult for us to even imagine what a mother of five children who cannot do anything can feel.

You can't imagine, and no one can imagine, and now I can't imagine what all this really was. The next day they went to my friends in Lutsk and spent a lot of time there. Now they have returned to Kyiv, they are with their grandparents, but I am considering the options that might happen that would require them to leave Kyiv. Despite the fact that Kyiv is now one of the safest cities in Ukraine.

It is a great happiness that your children managed to escape, and we are very glad, of course, that they are safe. Tell me, you, as a mother: first of all, women have a maternal instinct to protect their children.  But on February 25, you decided to go to the military commissariat.  Was that your motivation to drive the invaders out of the land to protect the children?

First of all, it was not about the state. Honestly. It was about my personal - and then about the state. Because there is nothing in the world that can be more expensive than them. I hope they know that.

Was this decision more emotional for you at first? Or was it immediately conscious?

No, it was more emotional. If they hadn't been there at the time, I would have had time to think about whether I was even ready to pick up a gun. I am not a young person. I am not in very good health, I have quite a lot of back problems and, let's be honest, age. I was quite efficient in my position. And probably, it would be more useful for me if I stayed at the Foundation and helped others, including the army. But at the moment when I made this decision, it was the only right one for me. And I would never forgive myself if I did something different.

Were your thoughts about the war different from the reality you saw in practice, or was there still a certain coincidence? By profession, you are a director of documentary films. You worked in this field for many years, then you were involved in volunteer and public activities for many years. Still, were you prepared for the war or what you saw there shocked you more than you expected?

The war has been going on for eight years.  I have already seen her. I did not learn anything new about what was happening. It has become larger, it has become more aggressive, but this is a war that has been going on since 2014, nothing new is happening.

Was Ukraine ready for war?

In your opinion, was Ukraine ready for what was happening? After all, the war has been going on for 8 years, but we can't always say that we prepared enough and allocated enough funds for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Were we ready for a full-scale invasion, the army itself?

Of course, we were not ready - on all levels. I will not even comment on what our leadership did. It's good to build roads, and it's good to remove roadblocks. But everyone understood that one day this would happen. But everyone gave themselves the opportunity to postpone it somewhere far away. Even those who lived through this war for many years. Everyone knew it was coming, but almost no one prepared. Among those I know personally, these were units. And at the state level - you all know what happened at the state level: we were waiting for kebabs, for sure.

If we are not talking about the army, but about society in general: you have already noticed that almost no one prepared and did not expect that a full-scale invasion would happen, despite the statements of our Western partners and the intelligence of other countries. Still, do you think that our society now understands why Russian aggression arose, what are the main reasons and factors? History and feedback are certain - is there already such a consciousness among Ukrainians, or is it not at all levels?

Don't expect more from people than they can feel and think. A significant part of society began to look at all this in a different way. But people are just people. And there are always those who don't care what kind of government they live under, those who are unable to think beyond their garden or a bench near the entrance. In any society, it is unrealistic for everyone to understand what is happening, for everyone to study history and be military experts. It won't be like that. But the society has grown significantly in literally half a year.

In your opinion, what conclusions should we draw regarding Russians in general - not military Russians, but civilian Russians? Do you support the thesis that "a good Russian is a dead Russian?"

I think the main thing we have to do is not to become them. This is not a war of territories or countries, it is a war of worldviews. And it is very important for me to leave my soul not as it is in them, if it is in them. No, I'm not ready to kill everyone. As for the man who came into my territory with a weapon, I have no doubt what to do with him. But killing women, children, and old women on their territory is not about me, and I hope it will never be about me. I also hope that most people can get over that black pain, that huge hatred that they have. Not for them, they don't deserve it. For your own sake.  Otherwise, if we become them, they will win anyway, even if we reach Moscow or Vladivostok.

Will we get there?

Let's see. We will win the war.

What is victory for you, by the way?

If we talk about territories, Crimea is mine, Donetsk is mine, and Luhansk is mine. I don't need too much. This is my country, it should be the way it was. When it comes to our society, I think there are huge conclusions to be drawn by everyone and we should never let this happen again. There should be a moat with crocodiles, a fence to the sky - whatever, we should never be close again. And as for our neighbor - let's be honest, two neighbors - I would like to see how these countries will move, but independently.