Ambassador Felix Baumann on why Switzerland won't give Ukraine military aid and the future of Ukrainian refugees

Let’s start by discussing the aid and support Ukraine receives from your country. As I understand, most of this assistance is humanitarian. What has already been provided, and what are the future plans?  

First of all, it has been three years since Russia launched its full-scale military aggression against Ukraine—another year of death, destruction, and human suffering for the Ukrainian people, another year of war in Europe.  

Switzerland has been supporting Ukraine not only since 2022 or even 2014. In fact, this support began over 30 years ago and includes a wide range of initiatives, from development cooperation and economic growth to humanitarian aid, which remains one of our key priorities.  

Recently, the main focus has been on preparing for winter, particularly in the energy sector. Significant efforts have been made to ensure backup energy supply and heating, modernize boiler facilities, and support newly displaced people.

We are also working with water utilities to improve the energy efficiency of water pumping systems, enhancing water supply for nearly two million people living near the front line.  

More broadly, Switzerland’s humanitarian support includes substantial contributions to various institutions and humanitarian funds. At the same time, we implement projects directly in cooperation with local authorities and partners on the ground. Practically every week, embassy staff, including engineers specializing in water infrastructure, travel to frontline areas to provide essential support.  

I believe this approach allows us to respond effectively to the needs of those who require assistance the most. We also actively promote the localization of humanitarian aid, recognizing the importance of empowering local organizations and volunteers to ensure sustainable humanitarian support in Ukraine.  

As a donor, we bear responsibility for providing support and acknowledge the crucial role of volunteers working in the most dangerous areas to help those in need. That’s why we back initiatives such as life and health insurance for volunteers.  

We continue our efforts in key areas of expertise, including water supply, sanitation, hygiene, and protection. One of our priorities remains humanitarian demining, for which Switzerland allocated 100 million Swiss francs (approximately 100 million euros) in 2023 for a four-year period. In this field, we support direct demining efforts, provide necessary equipment and technology, and offer advisory assistance to the government. This is a crucial step for the country’s recovery.

Mr. Ambassador, you mentioned cooperation with local authorities. Does this cover all of Ukraine, or are you focused on specific regions or cities? 

We have defined priorities based on our strategy in Ukraine, focusing on regions with the greatest needs. This means we are not limited to a single area but work across the country—from the west to the center and the east. We regularly travel to assess the situation on the ground, better understand specific needs, and engage with local communities and partners.  

Speaking in numbers, what is the total amount of humanitarian aid Switzerland has provided to Ukraine over the years? How much is that in dollars?

Given the vast needs, we have significantly increased our contribution over the past three years, which now amounts to approximately 630 million Swiss francs. This is not just humanitarian aid but a comprehensive cooperation package. We plan to continue expanding this support in the coming years.

Does Switzerland provide Ukraine with financial support beyond humanitarian aid?  

Switzerland employs a broad range of support mechanisms. In addition to humanitarian aid, we collaborate with international financial institutions such as the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development and the World Bank, particularly in implementing energy projects. This is also part of our contribution to Ukraine’s recovery and development.  

Thank you for your support. However, I have a question. As far as I know, the Swiss Confederation does not provide Ukraine with military aid. I understand this is due to certain reasons, but could you explain them in more detail?

Yes, that is correct. Switzerland does not provide military aid, and the reason is quite simple—it is a legal matter. Our law on military goods, as well as the principle of equal treatment of warring parties in an armed conflict, enshrined in our neutrality law, prevent us from supplying military assistance.  

The same applies to the re-export of weapons and ammunition by third countries that previously purchased them from Switzerland. Under current legislation, they cannot transfer these goods further without our approval.  

Regarding this issue, discussions are currently ongoing in the Swiss Parliament about potential changes to these provisions.  

Let’s take a closer look at this matter. Swiss banks are known worldwide for their reliability, and many international companies store their assets and funds there.

Russian businesses have also traditionally held—and still hold—significant financial resources in Swiss banks. However, following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, a substantial portion of Russian assets and funds were frozen in accordance with sanctions.  

Is there a possibility that Switzerland will transfer these assets to Ukraine for post-war reconstruction in the future?  

Thank you for this question, as it allows me to clarify the situation in more detail.  

First and foremost, it is important to distinguish between private Russian assets and state-owned assets belonging to the Central Bank of Russia.  

Switzerland has frozen 7.6 billion Swiss francs in state assets of the Russian central bank as part of international sanctions.

How much is that in dollars?  

In euros, the amount is approximately the same—around 7.6 billion.  

At present, neither Switzerland nor the European Union has legal grounds to confiscate and transfer to Ukraine either private Russian funds of legal origin or the assets of the Russian Central Bank.  

Regarding the Russian Central Bank's assets, the European Union has decided to use part of the profits generated from these assets, which are held in central securities depositories within the EU. This is what is commonly referred to as windfall profits.  

In Switzerland, as I mentioned earlier, we have also frozen the Russian Central Bank’s assets. However, there is a key difference: in Switzerland, the central securities depository does not hold Russian state assets. Instead, they are placed in commercial and private banks, meaning they do not generate similar windfall profits.

Thank you, Ambassador. As I understand, you brought literature on Swiss support programs for Ukraine. Could you tell us more about them?

Yes, Ukraine can continue to count on Switzerland's support.  

Reconstruction and recovery of Ukraine is a key priority of our foreign policy strategy for the next four years. Just last week, the Swiss government approved a new program that will serve as the foundation for our specific support to Ukraine during this period.  

Last year, we announced our intention to allocate 5 billion Swiss francs (about 5 billion euros) to Ukraine over the next 12 years. Specifically, for the period from 2025 to 2028, funding of 1.5 billion francs is planned. This program focuses on three key areas. The first priority is economic recovery. The second is supporting the effective provision of public services in Ukraine. The third is the protection of civilians and ensuring peace. These are the key areas of our work.  

We have a broad range of tools that we have already used and discussed earlier, including humanitarian aid, support for reforms, economic development, and peacekeeping and mediation initiatives. A flexible combination of these mechanisms allows us to effectively adapt support to the real needs in different regions of Ukraine.  

We can also adjust our approach according to changes in the situation and the specific needs of various regions in Ukraine.  

One of the new aspects of this program is that about one-third of the total amount will be directed towards involving the Swiss private sector in the recovery of Ukraine. This will allow for additional expertise and create added value in the reconstruction process.  

In this context, Ukraine’s First Deputy Prime Minister Yuliya Svyrydenko and our Minister of Economy signed a memorandum of understanding in Davos this January. This is an important first step in implementing support for the private sector.  

At the initial stage, the main focus will be on Swiss companies already operating in Ukraine and responding to the specific needs identified by the Ukrainian side. At the same time, these companies will also contribute to the recovery process, including by creating new jobs and providing professional training opportunities for youth.  

In addition, it is worth noting that a significant number of Swiss companies are operating in Ukraine.

Does this collaboration continue during the war?

Yes, indeed. Most companies have remained in Ukraine despite all the challenges and difficulties. It has been a tough period, but they have demonstrated resilience by continuing to work, creating jobs, and paying taxes, thereby supporting the country’s economy.  

Moreover, some companies have not only maintained their operations but are continuing to invest even in wartime. For example, production capacities are expanding in the Lviv and Volyn regions.  

To conclude our discussion on this program: is it still under discussion, or has it been officially approved?

 This program was officially approved by the Swiss government this month. Prior to that, consultations were held with Ukrainian ministries, partners, and stakeholders. The funding has already been approved by parliament, so the implementation can now begin.  

Let’s talk about political issues. Switzerland hosted the Global Peace Summit, where potential paths for a peaceful resolution to the war were discussed. Do you consider it successful? And can Switzerland organize another such peace summit in the future that could truly help end the war in Ukraine? Is there still a real possibility of achieving a peaceful resolution through negotiations with Russia?

Yes, 2024 has been one of the most active years in our bilateral cooperation. There were two meetings between our presidents, talks with the prime minister, and the Burgenstock Peace Summit, which became a key event of the year. It was one of the most important diplomatic initiatives.  

In June, we held the first serious attempt at a high-level discussion to find solutions to key issues related to the war. At the same time, it was an effort to unite a broad coalition of countries from around the world, and we succeeded—100 countries and international organizations participated in the conference.  

This inclusiveness, reflected in the joint communiqué, became one of the summit’s major achievements. Even now, it should remain a benchmark for further discussions on the future peace process.  

As for Switzerland’s role, we are ready to support any dialogue aimed at peaceful resolution if the parties involved seek our assistance. At the same time, Switzerland will remain an active participant in diplomatic processes regardless of this.  

For example, in 2026, our country will chair the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

What is your personal opinion on peace negotiations, particularly the discussions currently taking place in Saudi Arabia? Do you believe that such negotiations could persuade Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine and end the war?

The last few days have brought noticeable shifts and acceleration in this matter.  

Overall, the fact that the United States and Russia are engaging in high-level dialogue is a positive signal, and we hope that this will lay the groundwork for a future peace process.  

At the same time, it is fundamentally important for Switzerland that Ukraine is involved in these negotiations from the very beginning, as it concerns its future.  

Our position remains unchanged: we continue to support a comprehensive, just, and sustainable peace for Ukraine, based on international law and guaranteeing its security, in line with the UN Charter.  

Europe must also play an active role in these negotiations. After all, nothing that concerns Europe should be decided without it, right?  

Last year’s summit in Burgenstock, as we have already mentioned, demonstrated that the participation of 100 countries allowed for a meaningful and inclusive discussion.

Alright, now to a different topic. At the beginning of 2022, many Ukrainians were forced to leave their homes because of the war, and some found refuge in Switzerland. How many Ukrainian refugees are currently in your country?

Swiss society showed great solidarity with Ukrainian refugees from the start of the war in 2022, and this support has remained steadfast even after three years.  

In total, more than 100,000 Ukrainians arrived in Switzerland, although this number is now slightly lower as some refugees have returned, while others have arrived more recently. Currently, there are approximately 68,000 Ukrainians in the country with special protection status, and this number has remained stable over the past year. Notably, around 30% of them are already employed and working in Switzerland.  

I also read that there were discussions in Switzerland about the possibility of providing financial support for Ukrainians to return home. Is this issue still relevant?

 Even now, we are providing one-time financial assistance to individuals and families who decide to return to Ukraine. Indeed, there have been discussions in Switzerland about possible mechanisms to support the return of refugees, but it is still too early to make concrete decisions regarding this. The special protection status for Ukrainians, as per the EU decision, has been extended until March 2026.  

We fully recognize how important it is for Ukraine that its citizens eventually return and contribute to the recovery and rebuilding of the country.  

At the same time, returning requires not only financial support but also safety, stability, employment opportunities, and developed infrastructure – specifically, access to quality education, public transportation, medical services, and other vital sectors.

One more question on this topic. Two of my friends are currently in Switzerland. They were forced to leave due to the war at the beginning of 2022 and were granted refugee status. However, they refused any government support, deciding to work on their own, pay taxes, and cover all their expenses.

Will they be able to stay in Switzerland after the war in Ukraine ends, or will they be required to return?  

I cannot comment on the specific situation without knowing all the details. However, generally speaking, if a Ukrainian citizen or any foreigner is working in Switzerland and paying taxes, they are likely holding a residence permit. That would be a different case.  

For refugees with special protection status, the situation is more complex. On the one hand, if they stay for a long period, it is important to support their integration: helping them find work, learn the language, and enroll their children in school in Switzerland.  

At the same time, we are fully aware of how important it is for Ukraine that its citizens return after the war ends.

And my last question for today is about the summit in Davos. As far as I understand, you were present there, and the summit took place at the end of January. In your opinion, how important was it? Was it just a meeting place for European leaders to discuss, or did they also discuss and implement specific practical measures?

The World Economic Forum in Davos is an annual meeting that has been held for many years. It was not exclusively dedicated to Ukraine, although the war in Ukraine certainly became one of the key topics.  

As for Switzerland, I can say that in the corridors of the forum, we held many intense bilateral talks with Ukraine. Our presidents met again, as did the foreign ministers. Additionally, there was a meeting between Ukraine’s First Deputy Prime Minister and our Minister of Economy, which I already mentioned.  

We signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding private sector involvement and held a number of other meetings, including on a more technical level.  

At least for Switzerland, this platform became an opportunity for meaningful discussions with the Ukrainian authorities on a wide range of issues, and in my opinion, we used it as effectively as possible.

Mr. Ambassador, this is your office. What does a typical working day of the Swiss Confederation Ambassador in Ukraine look like?

Yes, this is my office, but I try to spend as much time as possible outside of it because I believe that the main role of an ambassador is to meet with people. I frequently interact with representatives of the Ukrainian government, business, civil society, project partners, as well as cultural and educational figures.  

What does my typical working day look like? This is probably the hardest question of the whole interview because the concept of a "typical day" doesn't really exist in my work—each day is different from the previous one. Sometimes it involves meetings with government officials, signing agreements, or attending events related to the transfer of equipment or technology provided by Switzerland. Occasionally, I participate in ceremonies or other official events. So, yes, my workdays are always varied.  

A significant part of my work also involves managing the embassy’s activities, especially considering Switzerland's growing contribution to supporting Ukraine in recent years. Achieving our goals is impossible without a strong and competent team.  

As a result, over the past two years, the embassy staff has significantly expanded. I can truly rely on a highly professional and dedicated team of colleagues—both Ukrainian and Swiss. Without their persistence and dedication, we wouldn’t have been able to achieve everything we are talking about today.  

And still, to be more specific, is the main work of an ambassador done here at the embassy or outside of it?

Probably about equally. Of course, many meetings take place at the embassy, where we host guests. At the same time, I make considerable efforts to operate outside of it—visiting our partners and beneficiaries. I believe this is extremely important.  

Speaking about "outside of it": you've been the ambassador to Ukraine for about a year and a half now—have you had the opportunity to travel around the country?

Yes, I have traveled around Ukraine, and I believe it is extremely important for ambassadors to leave the capital.  

Considering the diverse realities in different regions, it is crucial to understand the local needs and engage in dialogue with local authorities and partner organizations throughout the country.  

I have visited Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, and many eastern regions, including Dnipro, Kherson, Mykolaiv, Odesa, and Chernihiv. Of course, I have also been to the central and western parts of the country.  

My first trip was to Vinnytsia, as we have longstanding partner relations there. Additionally, it’s in Vinnytsia that Zurich trams, which you see on the cover, have been part of the city’s public transport for several years now.  

Furthermore, I also visited the western part of Ukraine, including Lviv. There, low-floor trams from Bern are being prepared for launch, and they will soon start operating in the city.  

I’m convinced that traveling around the country is extremely important. Especially in areas close to the front line, where I had the opportunity to meet with the beneficiaries of our projects. These moments have been some of the most emotional of my time here.  

Meetings with people who sincerely express gratitude for the support they’ve received are incredibly meaningful. This not only inspires me but also allows me to see firsthand how the work we are doing here in Kyiv is really impacting the lives of many Ukrainians.