This happened on February 18, 2023, European Pravda reports.
“We need to be careful about pushing Ukraine to a certain result. Perhaps at some point Ukraine will change its vision,” Pavel said after the Ukrainian Foreign Minister publicly emphasized the need to return the Crimean peninsula.
As Petr Pavel continued, the Russian Federation's defeat has different scenarios, including those that the West, in his opinion, should avoid.
“It is possible that this will lead to Russia's collapse... If Russia collapses, then we may have more problems, we may have no one to negotiate disarmament with,” Pavel, whose presidential term will begin in March, said.
Ukraine's Foreign Minister Kuleba rebutted Pavel.
“There is an intellectual trap that needs to be avoided. While supporting Ukraine, we must also believe in Ukraine, and not prepare it for the worst,” the minister said.
“There is no difference between those who say the phrase 'Ukraine may concede' and the phrase 'Ukraine will probably have to concede'. Therefore, believe in Ukraine and support Ukraine, and we will win,” the Ukrainian FM said.
“The other panelists also disagreed with Pavel, leaving him as the only participant who made such assumptions,” European Pravda writes.
“To those who say 'be realistic', I want to remind you that a year ago, 'being realistic' meant not assuming that we are here today. To be 'realistic' means to be short-sighted,” Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said.
He also called on all of Ukraine's partners to “believe in what you are doing.”
Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin, for her part, urged not to offer Russia an easy defeat to avoid imaginary undesirable consequences.
“Russia must pay a really high price for its attack on Ukraine. All 400 billion of frozen Russian money should be spent in Ukraine. The price for Russia for this attack must be really high. If it is such that they can bear it, there will be another attack. And Russia must really lose the war,” the Finnish Prime Minister said.
In the end, Pavel agreed that Ukraine could win the war against Russia, but only if it continues to receive Western weapons and funding, and if sanctions against the aggressor country are strengthened.
Oleksiy Danilov, Secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, said that the future of human civilization directly depends on whether the Russian Federation can be dismantled. According to the official, a number of nation states should emerge instead.