'Defeating Moscow isn't enough': journalist says Ukraine needs civilized Russia to endure

Journalist Vitaly Portnikov said this on Espreso TV.

He was commenting on the fact that U.S. Senator Marco Rubio congratulated Russians on Russia Day.

"I think Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is absolutely right when he addresses the Iranian people and tells them: ‘Get rid of the ayatollahs. Live in a normal country, start an uprising and build a government that won’t create problems for everyone else.’ Rubio is saying something very similar. He says, ‘We hope the Russian people will seek a better future for themselves.’ How is what Netanyahu says any different from Rubio’s message, if you really think about it?" Portnikov noted.

In his view, a better future means a country without the Putin regime, a country that doesn’t start wars, doesn’t invade, shoot, or kill.

"What do we want? Most of our compatriots would probably say: ‘We want to defeat Moscow. We want to march through Red Square. We want Russia to collapse.’ But there’s one key condition for that: Ukraine must survive as a state. Not become part of the Russian Federation, which is exactly what the current Russian leadership wants," the journalist added.

He said that what’s needed is a Russian people who don’t want to swallow up Ukraine or erase the Ukrainian nation.

"Back to the question of security guarantees: the only real guarantee that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people will exist (there are no others) — is a democratic, European, and civilized Russia. If you think I believe that such a Russia will just appear, I don’t. Just like I don’t believe a democratic Iran will appear. I simply know this: as long as Iran and Russia stay the way they are, no serious investment can be made in either Israel’s security or Ukraine’s survival," Portnikov said.

In his opinion, both countries are at risk of disappearing in historical terms.

"For that threat to go away, we need to fight back. Just like Ukrainians are fighting back against Russia, and Israel is now fighting against Iran. All we can do is wish both countries success in this long, hard fight. And we all understand: for both Israel and us, this will be a long war. These are just the first salvos of a long, multi-year war. For Ukraine, that’s certain," he said.

Portnikov added that when we talk about a war of attrition, 3.5 years isn’t long.

"I don’t know when it’s reasonable to talk about an end to this kind of conflict. Maybe 6–7 years. Usually, in six to seven years, we can hope for some weakening — if both countries are still around, if they still have capacity. We just have to keep existing on our territory for those six to seven years. That’s the main task for the Ukrainian people. To preserve sovereignty within certain borders after seven years of this big black war. And to make sure Russia has fewer options. After that, we can think about the future," the journalist said.

He stressed that Rubio has every right to talk about the future, because he may want to run for president and maybe he wants a different approach to Russia.

"What kind of U.S. president do we need — someone who kisses Putin French-style, or someone who wants the Russian people to change? Without defending Rubio, I think the dialogue between the American and Russian peoples is a lot more civilized than what we saw between Trump and Putin," Portnikov concluded.